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Date: 1998-11-15 05:42:09
From "David Lemon"
Subject: Re: Typeface Trade mark permission. How to do it?

At 11:44 PM 11/14/98, WillAdams@aol.com wrote:
> The problem with Avant Garde is that there isn't now available a
> good version of it which matches Herb Lubalin's original (but
> since recanted) vision of a typeface with a ligature for every
> (almost) possible letterpair. (There was a licensed one at one time,
> which is no longer distributed).

I believe Linotype will happily sell you ITC Avant Garde Gothic+, which
includes Lubalin's full set of ligatures. I'd agree it's not generally
useful, since it requires either GX or Mac/OS 8.5, and "savvy"
applications, although I think they also had the ligatures in a suplemental
font for the non-savvy app's.

> What if it's a font which the designer wanted to remain exclusive
> to a given firm? Can one then act ethically in a manner contrary to
> the designer's wishes? What about (oh blast, can't remember the names)
> what's his name

T.J. Cobden-Sanderson

> tossing the punches for the Doves type into the Thames? What's the
> ethical basis for a Doves resurrection then?

One could note that Emery Walker (Cobden-Sanderson's partner) was furious
that the font was destroyed.

> My take on this has always been that if you get the permission of
> the designer (or his/her heirs), it's okay, without that permission,
> well there should be a reason for not getting it, like, say
> everyone's dead. (A Janson revival for instance).

Although it would match the Bauhaus ideal of new designs for new
technology, I think the old classics are worth keeping. I'd feel pretty
deprived in a world of type with no Bodoni, Janson/Kis, Garamond,
Baskerville, Fournier or Goudy (I believe you can still find heirs for
Caslon, Gill and Dwiggins). Thus, when no heirs exist, I think reviving
designs which are otherwise inaccessible to current technology is a
reasonable thing to do.

This gets back to the points William made about ITC Avant Garde Gothic and
Bitstream. "Reviving" something that's available in current technology
looks like a form of competing with the original, not saving it. I'll note
that ATypI's 17-year guideline was written before the days of
platform-independent fonts, when not having a font meant you couldn't sell
typesetters. I don't see any ethical justification for redoing someone
else's design when it's available today.

There's also a legal issue here: trademarks on the name. If I were to
release "Dave's Avant Garde", ITC would have grounds to sue me for
trademark infringement. They're registered the trademark ITC Avant Garde
Gothic, and the new name could be construed to impact the value of theirs.
If anyone is considering doing such things, I'd strongly advise getting
legal counsel first.

- David Lemon
  type nerd
  While waxing parquet decks, Suez sailors vomit jaunitly abaft.

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